Acts like a bf, treats me like a gf, but doesn't want a title yet

Just to clarify, you two are definitely exclusive? You’ve had that conversation? I didn’t see that you wrote anywhere that you two have discussed it and established exclusivity.

I can understand your anxiety. My boyfriend also had some fears of getting into a new relationship stemming from his divorce (which was 3 years before we met), when we first started dating. When we first met we had a very magical, intense connection (textbook honeymoon period stuff). At around 3 months, I pressed the issue of labels, what are we, etc. He was balky and nervous about it, but we talked about it. We didn’t settle on a title, so I decided to back off and give it more time. I didn’t bring it up again and was just my normal, awesome self :-) A month later, at 4 months of dating, he told me “I love you” out of the blue for the first time. We quickly settled the “what are we” question after that :-) and have been together 2 years now.

My situation is different from yours because we are both in our 40s, divorced, already had kids, so weren’t in the market for that. That’s why I decided to lean back and give it more time, because I wasn’t in a particular hurry.

I’m not sure what to tell you about “non-intrusive check ins” and “action plans”. You’re not on some kind of military mission. And I think expecting a man to check in and recite his exact feelings for you on demand is counterproductive. It will only make him dread addressing the topic.

He sounds like he is into you. Whether he sees something long term with you, I can’t say. Some of the things you mention are weird to me, like him being “scared” that you use pet names. Or saying he doesn’t really know you- that’s a bit ridiculous- the point of dating is to get to know someone. You can’t possibly know all of a person after 3 months.

Since you are talking about starting online dating again, I am assuming the two of you have not established exclusivity? My boyfriend was always very clear with me that we were exclusive, early on, even when we had not settled on a title yet. That was huge to me. I wasn’t so desperate about getting the title at 3 months as long as i knew my boyfriend was only dating me. That’s just me, though.

I would say 3 months of dating isn’t that long, and to give it a little more time, like another month or two. I would pull back a bit, and let him lean in and make more effort. Honestly you sound a bit intense in your post (all this talk about decision time, progress, buying in etc) and I could see that scaring a guy off. However I’m at a different stage of life than you are so I can understand your anxiety to get settled down.

If corona was not here, this dude should be dumped immediately, but it is. So we are in a weird time where people are very very triggered about a lot of stuff. Therefore, when I normally say a man makes you his girlfriend quickly and get out if not, this is almost a get out of jail free. This time does not count (I would say 3-5 months max). I suggest a long leash and let him pursue you completely. Nothing without his initiation. If he gets confused and asks why, simply state… you said you needed more time, I will give you all the time, but I am also considering if this is a good fit for me.

If you are unhappy you could dump him, and shocking be by yourself. I know, god forbid. Love yourself and be ok alone.

Two months is still just two months – it’s not a long time. It’s a good start, but a relationship isn’t serious until you’ve seen each other in all seasons, and weathered some problems together. It soudns like things got very serious (for you) quickly – buyt even if you became exclusive early on, that doesn’t mean you knew each other well.

The time when people feel ready to call something a relaitonship is different for everyone – what matters is whether you’re on the same page. Are you exclusive? Does he introduce you to friends? Have you talked about things like family, friends, life plans, work, etc? How much do you know about him outside of dates?

I have a similar story to Liz – My BF was happy to be exclusive, definitely saw us together and said things were going really well – before he felt comfortable calling it a ‘relationship’. But he introduced me to all his and treated me well and seriously – the ‘label’ just followed. I was prepared to look elsewhere if he flaked, but he continued to step up with his actions. In retrospect, I think what he sees as a relationship is more serious than when I consider a relationship to start. Similarly, when it comes to declaring love -for some people its an admission they are full of lust and romantic longing, whereas for others it’s practically a declaration they see you as a life partner. Before you excoriate your guy, maybe find out what a relationship means to him.

He does sound scared of relatoinships, and that is a flag to be wary of. Have you discussed with him whether it’s even something he’d consider in the future? I do wonder just how much he thinks you have to know each other before being BF/GF – that sounds like a big deal for him. This all could be a red flag – some guys just can’t admit that they don’t want a relationship or won’t be ready soon. But others are genuinely ready to try but need a little more time working through it. Given that you’ve only had a couple of months – most of it under lockdown, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a guy to want to get to know you better. That doesn’t mean he can’t be flakey or a commitment phobe, it means you need more information.

I think your approach to demand constant reassurances goes a little too far to be helpful – his actions should be showing you that he cares anyway. If he initiates regular conversation (and dates) and shows an interest in your life- that’s an interest. Do you really need him to frequently tell you he cares? Don’t turn getting to know each other into an itemised check list – keep things fun. He said you guys need to get to know each other better – but for most people that’s an organic process not something that requires a Q+A! Take time to ask him questions about himself. Honestly, how well do you really feel you know each other? Well enough to get married? Probably not – so he’s right. Even after an excellent few months’ worth of dates, there’s a lot to know.

If you need constant reassurances, maybe consider if part of this is your own issues – and that it may be something you need to deal with, too. The guy can’t promise you together forever, and saying I love you every 5 minutes won’t make him any less likely to break up if either of you realise you’re just not compatible. Everyone wants nice words once in a while, but I think you should also work on yourself and examine your own need to micromanage this situaiton. I’m an anxious person and I recognise that your ations are probably coming from a place of fear and insecurity. Which is very human – relationships make all of us worry.

The time that any one person will feel comfortable giving to a man is different for everyone. We can’t tell you when you should feel you’ve had enough. I think it’s sensible to protect yourself from over-investing by stepping back a bit. I think it’s worth you being honest – have you explicitly told him that you’re looking for a relationship? And that whilst he doesn’t have to lock down right now, and you can see where things go for a bit longer, but ultimately you won’t accept less? Ultimatums generally aren’t useful, however signposting what you want is generally important. Men, in particular are taught that commitment is all about losing their freedom, and that it’s easiest to stay where they are – but he needs to know that if he doesn’t step up, you may not accept that. Don’t expect a timeline – how’s he supposed to know when he feels ready? The main thing is to let him know that this is important to you, with the clear understanding that you’re happy to see where things go, but won’t be strung along indefinitely and would appreciate honesty if it’s not his thing.

If you have agreed to be exclusive, then no, you shouldn’t try dating other people – that’s cheating. And personally, if you care for him I feel it’s a counterproductive move for this relationship. Imagine if he did that to you – told you that he was serious, but actually, he’d like to shop around whilst you work on an issue you are dealing with. Just in case it doesn’t work out with you? If you really want to, and you’re exclusive, you’ll have to be honest with him – with the explanation that you’re looking for a relationship, and you don’t feel he has to be pressured to give it to you, but if he can’t decide if he wants it, you may unfortunately find it elsewhere. however, this is hard to do if you’ve both agreed to be exclusie and would likely doom this relationship. If you’re not exclusive then you may do as you wish. This is much easier to do if you haven’t agreed to be exclusive.

‘Almost’ 30 is still young – yes, if you want kids you need to be mindful of not wasting years with men who’ve told you with words or actions. But no sensible man will date a woman for 2 months then promise har she’s the one just because that’ll help her tick things off her list. You really don’t have to rush things quite that much. I can’t tell you if he’s right for you, but I can tell you that you may scare away plenty of contenders who may be -if after 2 months you crack out a to-do list and demand they comply.

I’m worried you want to rush relationships because you’ve got a to-do list and marriage and kids are on it. I’m over 30 so I’ve seen more than my fair share of friends desperately try to rush a guy because they want kids and marriage locked down. But you can’t rush getting to know a life partner and mos tpeople I know who try make incredibly bad decisions once they have a man in sight because they so badly want him to be the one. Don’t do this for the wrong reasons. You should end a relationship if you see red flags, feel the guy can’t give you what you want, or that he is really dragging it out and it isn’t progressing well and it’s not going anywhere. But if you like someone and it is going well, then it’s worth giving it a few months to see. If you really feel he’s wasting your time – you know the situation better than anyone, and it’s time to let him go. But judge a man by his actions and whether he treats you with respect as a person. Not by how ostentatious his signs of affection are.

I’m worried that you’re taking a very ‘box ticking’ approach due to anxiety. You can’t to-do list your way into a relationship or build intimacy.

I skipped through mell’s response because it was so long but reading it now i could have saved myself the trouble responding since she wrote it all out in a way more coherent view. So i would rake note of her response

Well you are quite rude telling lane she can leave the site whole she has been a solid contributor here for years. And she can be tough when it comes to clingy and codependent behaviour because she has a good view on how men think. I agree with her assesment for big parts

Sorry, the timings were a little confusing, but that’s understandable with lockdown.

The thing is, what you’re demonstrating is an intolerance of uncertainty. That’s an anxiety response. You’re scared to be hurt, so you want to know, right now, if everything will be OK. It’s completely understandable, but dating and life don’t work like that. I’m saying that this is probably an attitude that crops up whenever you’re stressed in lots of contexts – and sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn’t. Relationships are inherently uncertain, and we have to accept that.

It’s understandable you’ve had bad experiences and don’t want to repeat them. And it’s fair to tell him that. Saying that you are looking for a relationship is fine. Telling him that you’ve had some bad experiences, before, too, so you like to know where you stand, is fine. I’m an anxious person so I can really see where you’re coming from, and i’m glad you’re getting help. Have you ever acually told your therapist about your relationship based fears, or the ways you del with them? I wonder if they might have some professional advice that might make your life easier. Being slightly more expert than us here.

But you can’t make someone change because of your previous experiences, or expect them to give you assurances they can’t because you’re scared. Your fears are a ‘you problem’ – they can address them to a point – a good date should be considerate of your feelings. But they also have feelings of their own, which may not line up.

It sounds like you need to tell him that – you’ve been out for a few months and you’d like to see where you are as more than casual. But no, he can’t promise you kids any time soon, because no sane guy just starting out with a woman is sizing up the diapers. Guys aren’t socialised to want kids ASAP because they’ll go boom and people will think they are a failure. So most guys don’t go into relationships with quite the same zeal to agree to kids at the start. They tend to vaguely consider them, and often know they want them but really take it more seriously once they are with someone who seems right.

Take your time. I thnk you’re very right to be cautious – you have the time to get to know him better and decide if you feel this is progressing how you need it to. But it has nothing to do with your friends’ relationships, so don’t kid yourself with comparisons – each relationship is different. You’ve got no idea how things went down with them, when they had those conversations, the experiences they previously had that led to those timelines. And you have no idea how many relationships either partner messed up along the way by moving too fast or too slow. I know people who got engaged after a year – to me that’d be silly and risky and would make me very, very nervous. I’m glad my boyfriend also wants to take things slowly. For some other people, that may be way too slow, but it works for us. The point is that ideal speed is different for everyone – if he moves at a completely different pace to you, maybe you both need different people. But look for the right pace for YOU, not ‘compared to my friends’.

So talk to your guy, but keep dating fun – is it fun for you? Do you enjoy getting to know him? In Why Men Marry Bitches (which SS always recommends, I feel)they make a point that you need to look like you mean business, but dating you also needs to be fun. He needs to feel that dating you is a fun commitment to make – but also that if he doesn’t make an effort, he might lose you. Dating is built out of respect and fun, but also knowing that other people won’t take our sh!t.

When (or if) you feel he really isn’t progressing, and you’ve given him enough of a chance not to regret it, you can always let him know that you have to part ways because you want different things. But you should do that because you’re sure he’s not giving you what you want, not because of the fear that maybe he won’t, if that makes sense. Don’t be led by fear, but by evidence. Or you might regret it when the fear subsides.

Good luck.

I was not judgmental, patronizing nor gaslighting you. I can see you’ve been reading this forum for awhile as “gaslighting” is a new fangled word that gets tossed around here a lot, never by me but others.

All I did was hold up a mirror up so you could see that *your game plan* is a failure. You can’t just back-peddle without telling him *why* you’re suddenly back-pedaling because all it will do is reinforce his fears that women change, and why he’s smart not to rush in or he’ll get burned. That was the sole point I made and was trying to make about “your game plan.” Guess you didn’t see it.

Go back and re-read your post. Its game playing, as you appear to be far more interested in “getting the GF title” than you are about having a loving long-term relationship with the right guy. I call bull pucky on men who lock a lady down early. Those are usually based on lust and infatuation (hormonal high), not love, as true love is developed and built over time with positive memories like Liz explained (that’s how my long-terms developed too), and like mell said, “many seasons” to see how well you not only mesh on important topics (beliefs, finances, parenting, children, goals, etc.) but how well you work as “a team” when the curve balls of life are thrown at you.

The only title that truly matters is “wife.” You can be any dude’s “GF” as that’s the easiest title any lady can achieve…I’ve got a shelf full of those. But being a guy’s wife—that’s a whole different ball game that doesn’t involve playing games but allowing each person to be their true and authentic selves, flaws and all.

Lane,

Every male dating coach espouses that men commit early – no longer than 12 weeks. They are men… you are not. And I dare you to find a lot of examples where a man not committed to being a boyfriend by 3 months becomes a boyfriend or a husband… especially if the continue telling you it is casual and they are unsure. Being exclusive and a boyfriend is not an expectation of marriage, it is a let’s see what happens as we get to know each other with focus and intention. And most woman have seen that men who want to be a boyfriend act and talk that way pretty early…. This guy is not demonstrating anything that should be considered investing. He is actively distancing. There is nothing she could have done to change that.

And the poster is putting too much pressure (you are right on that), but that is because she is not confident enough to walk away. She should have been watching his actions and words and made sure they match and that they want the same things. From this dude who has made it clear his feelings are stalled and not getting deeper. He can not articulate what is missing and I doubt he will find it. Not with her in the actual picture. He has a lot of issues.

Tall, not ALL men fit within a text book, humans are more complicated than painting them all with the same broad brush.

Every man is unique, where some fall fast, and some fall slowly and gradually. Take my FWB for instance. We were both ‘on the same page’ in the beginning, both made it very clear that this was only casual (temporary) and not going to go further than what we agreed to. Well, I held up my end of the bargain but he did not, and wanted more than I was willing to give or offer him. He started becoming very passive-aggressive around 15 months in, to the point I had to dump him a few months later because I don’t like, nor care to be manipulated into something I don’t want.

Take my current BF. Our first interlude started out the same way, it was just a temporary fling, and we would go on our merry way. We did, then he returned 9 months later. I initially hesitated because I didn’t want to go down that road again because it hurt my business the last time, he consumed too much of my time, and so I wasn’t into doing another round. The moment we saw each other, it was if the nine-months didn’t happen, and we slipped right to where we had left off. Again, I went into it knowing this wasn’t going to amount to anything, we would play temporary BF/GF again, he would leave and I would get back to my single busy life. Didn’t happen. After the four months was over and he left, he’s the one who kept *pushing it* where I asked him what the hell do you want, and he answered *I want you.* He didn’t tell me he loved me until over six months later, only because I asked him if he did—that was over three years ago and we are still going strong.

So I respectfully agree to disagree with you. Its a crapshoot.

I want to add one more thing.

Oftentimes its clear as day that it won’t amount to anything, as its pretty black and white based on what the OP writes. However there are those *shades of gray* posts, like this one, where there’s a 50/50 chance it could go one way, or the other, if given enough time to grow beyond the surface, plant some roots, allow it grow past the soil, and develop into a relationship, naturally and organically.

If a man is treating you really well, integrating you in his life, initiating a lot of time to spend with you, and is going beyond the surface level to get to know you, want to learn about you in many different situations, and begin to remember everything you told or tell them—telling them to *dump him* because he doesn’t meet a specific *timeline* could hurt their chance of finding a great partner. If I had listened to ANY of the advice given here, my BF and I, would not be together, and I would have lost out on a great partner. I’m coming to conclude that sometimes we need to be careful in giving *canned advice* which is very common here (I’m just as guilty of giving it), and let them take the risk, because they could have very well missed out on finding a great partner if they had just given it a bit more time, and not listened to a bunch of strangers on an internet board.

Sure Lane anything is possible. It’s possible he could wake up one morning, realize she’s the love of his life and commit. It’s also possible he could wake up one morning realizing he does know why he’s not feeling it with her and end it. Personally if a man is continuously telling me he’s scared of going too fast, jumping into anything too soon because he has issues from his past to work on and didn’t want to lose himself in a relationship. and still saw us as casual after almost 4 months he’s waving a big old RED flag right in my face and I wouldn’t have stuck around this long. Except that maybe it was just convenient to me given the lockdown/quarantine. He told her this early in the relationship and because she stuck around he thought she was okay with it. 

And I’m going to agree with Tallspicy that the men I wanted to get serious with got serious with me at the 3-4 month time and locked me down. Also the men who didn’t want to commit beyond causal also broke up with me or disappeared at that time and there are several I broke up with at the 3 month mark myself. Is it the same for everyone? No. But Do the majority of women posting here wanting to know where they stand usually say they’re at the 3-4 month mark in their relationship. YES. So I don’t think it’s coincidence.

Dani, you continuing with him after he told you all this made him think you were ACCEPTING his terms of not wanting to move fast or jump into something. And by the way “something” means a committed relationship!! You didn’t listen and felt like because he was spending time with you, and acting like a boyfriend you were well on your way to making things official by the 3 month mark. But as you see that’s not happening and it’s because you totally ignored what this man was telling you. He wasn’t lying to you and you know yourself he had a “really terrible last relationship” he still needs to work through. Yes he can care about you, want to spend time with you and “act” like a boyfriend but in reality it’s more FWB.  

I’m not sure why you think in 2 months all these issues would just work themselves out and he would commit. You chose to spend time with him after he told you he wasn’t ready so he’s at a loss for why all the sudden now you have an issue with it. And he’s absolutely right that in the beginning people are showing their best side and “just the good parts.” It takes quite a while to really get to know someone and you could say the same about him. I really don’t think reminding him he’s seen you easily upset, easily stressed, triggered, and your negative traits in just 3 months is going to make him want to commit!! LOL  Your need for reassurance and to know where everything stands and these forced “open forum” discussion times are just going to push him further away. You want to control things and be assured you won’t get hurt and that’s not how love works. You have to take a leap of faith and put yourself out there or you’ll never find it. Put in your situation I think you are betting on the wrong horse with this guy. Sorry.

Casual is totally fine by the way as long as you’re both aligned. You should not be so judgy that the people who want relationships have a void in that of their life. that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard, literally the most ridiculous. People with voids in their life try to get people who aren’t interested to be interested, people with no voids look to find the right people to share their life with and only accept people who want what they want. Casual plus casual equals good. Serious plus serious equals good. Casual plus serious equals bad.