Doubting the whole "let him initiate" thing.

“What do you all think about this?”

Your mileage may vary, and I think you may be missing the point here.

While to some extent this may be true remember motivation comes from desire.

If a person wants something they get it. Male or female, irrespective of your passiveness.

Aaaah. I have consistently expressed my displeasure with the notion of “let him chase/don’t initiate” on here. I’m a bold, go getter ENTJ-type (and not American, and thus not accustomed to the American way of “dating” anyway), and men (alpha and beta) seem to love that about me/seem confused when I’m more passive/think it’s a lack of interest. It’s always been this way, I’m used to getting what I want – yes, men too – and don’t have some disastrous love life. In fact, my LT ex (a very attractive, successful alpha) and I broke up because he wanted to settle down and get married, and I didn’t. The guy of 10 years ago was practically planning our wedding whilst I was fretting over how to let him down easy. I often chase/initiate and have landed half my boyfriends this way. Skimming through the posts I think I might’ve realised for the first time why I don’t see a problem in chasing/initiating.

1) I don’t do it from a place of neediness/insecurity.
I’m cool, detached, do whatever the hell I want, expect men to fall for me, and I don’t carry my heart on my sleeve. In my experience men can’t resist the combo – a woman who acts like she CAN have any man but doesn’t necessarily WANT to have them? They want what they (seemingly) can’t have.
And
2) when I initiate/chase, I usually/mainly do it to the point where I feel the guy is “hooked”/sufficiently interested, then I start pulling back. If he doesn’t take action (the bait!) at that point, well tough luck, his loss. And fyi, I usually end up being the one asked ‘what we are/where things are going’ – just like in my latest post.

Do I like timid, pushover men that aren’t willing to step up?
No. The strong, confident, driven type with enough balls to deal with me, actually.

Do I think any and all women should chase/initiate?
No. It won’t work for insecure or overly invested types, for starters.

Do I think women that do chase are making men lazy by “chasing”?
No. If he can’t take the hint or doesn’t take over from you, he’s just not that interested. If you can’t take it on the chin, realise he probably wasn’t worth it anyway and move on, you shouldn’t be doing it.

At the end of the day I really don’t believe in “rules” – I truly believe it depends on so many factors such as personality, culture etc. I always go with what feels right and not what is “prescribed”, and very much doubt that I’ll end up being a cranky old spinster (unless that’s my personal choice ;) )

ChicagoGirl61,

You understood perfectly my point because seems like we’ve dealt with the same issues. Guys saying “you never text or call” … although some say that yet they keep looking for me, some give up too easily because they’re insecure and other girls are literally begging for attention.

To clarify some posters I never said I’d initiate the first contact and probably never will but I respond and let them lead and then well, like this guy I went out three days ago, he asked me “when can I see you again?” so I said most likely this Sunday, he seemed happy but his texts are so lame and lazy I’m doubting that’s going to happen.

He texts a smiley face and expects me to be the one taking it from there …????

Not in this life, lol … Been there, done that and IT DID NOT WORK OUT!!!

Seems like some men like them clingy to be able to get rid of them later…

They are afraid of strong independent women because we mean serious business and that’s scary, what if they fall in love and have to marry us?

I don’t know. I just know that today I’m seeing things from another perspective.

I think if a dude is not blowing up my phone is because he wants easy and that’s something I’m not. I deserve a man that’s going to work his ass to get me and that’s crazy about me.

When will that adorable man will arrive? I dunno but I will definitely not settle for less.
I know someone will find me so irresistible I will not doubt his level of interest, his intentions or his character. I just know.

I am pretty black and white on this issue; in my opinion guys should initiate all, sorry but in my experience it always ends badly if a woman initiates. Even when they have chased you and they finally feel that they have you then they get cold feet. In this sense it is better not to give away much. This is really difficult because men love feminine women which includes love, care, warmth from a woman but hard to do that without giving too much. I agree that problems generally start when women become too emotionally involved. I have been guilty at that. Never have problem with men until then, it is just not easy because after all you do want love and reciprocated love. A man chases you claiming his eternal love for even a long time, you finally give in emotionally and boom all dynamics change. So even later things can change we know. Relationships are constant work. BTW, because men still like feminine women, this is part of the reason they like chasing. I would never initiate.I never had a problem with guys initiating, at least not in the last five or so years. There are ways to show them interest and encourage them but again even with this we have to be careful. They can think all they want about playing hard to get. To me it is just natural this way but I am close to 40 and I think this may be a problem affecting the younger generation more.

it’s weird for me because in person I am EXTREMELY feminine & passive I guess the word for it would be, like I don’t talk that much at first I more talk with my eyes when I’m around guys, I’m very alluring & mysterious, I do not act aggressive in any way shape or form like I always have guys following me around if it’s in person, but it’s weird with me because when it comes to texting I have this strange compulsion to want to text. Not stuff like “hello” but to share things that come to mind & my intuition tells me to say it to the guy (& it usually works very well) I am guessing it is only because of I grew up with instant messaging, then later texting, and I am so used to instant communication ever since I was 14 that that’s how I connect with people who I’m not around & I’m just so used to it that to not do it when my intuition tells me to would be extremely unnatural .. but in person I am the furthest thing from that. I’m a weirdo!!! hahaa :)

We have so much in common I’m petite too!! :) I am so happy to hear there is someone else out there who just because you go for it, doesn’t mean it’s masculine energy! Haha that’s awesome I feel like we’re twins :)

Thank you Eric. What a great post to learn from. What I find really helpful is what you are describing as complaining, whining, expectations resulting in unhappiness, thus negative energy. Everyone wants to feel good, great and better about themselves when with another person.

I have not had problems with not being bombarded but it is true that I am the type of person that will be very positive and fun to be around. Very true about radiating and sparkling. The problem starts with becoming emotionally invested in a few months and having unmet expectations, that could result in negative energy and a changed person, not to the better. This is whining but I often get the feeling that men want to chase me and get me including getting my love too, which seems to be the big challenge, only once they have it, they start weaning me off of theirs which of course results in unhappiness, frustration and anger which then leads to my trying to talk to them once or twice only to walk away soon after when nothing changes.

Ashley, I hear you girl about texting instinctively, the only thing I find to be a problem is that once someone is too instinctive and impulsive, it can lead to trouble on the long run, sure sometimes it is fun but I generally wait for them to contact me to tell them my fun stories. MsAqua I am definitely not accusing you of masculine energy.:))) I like you girls very much regardless of whether we are twins or not on every issue.

About following rules, I am most definitely not a rule follower either, however, I have also learnt that not following certain rules can lead to disaster. Not listening to some smart advice on here is again calling for disaster. We can ignore and say hey I am different but how will it help us in gaining anything. Of course I am allowed to be stubborn and disregard the dating rules or rather guidance here saying I am right but if we are so right why are we here. What I find important is being open or opening up to advice and help here, after all it is the aim of this forum and site, eventually that can help us in achieving the end result. But for this the rules should not just remain rules but becomes part of our internal work, work that results in recognizing that those rules are actually very helpful and realistic (while instincts and impulses often are not) and internalizing many of these rules to make them become us because if we never learn, we will never find why we are all here.

What I often see as a problem here on the forum is asking for help but then “fighting” those that contradict us in a way claiming to be right and not wanting to own our own mistakes, it is hurtful to admit that we are wrong especially if that meant losing someone but knowing what went wrong which is often said here, we can grow and come closer to our goal. It is like pulling a bad tooth out finally, it will hurt like hell before and during but after a short period of hurting afterwards healing and progress will begin.

Thanks everyone for replying, thanks a lot Eric. I see where you’re coming from, sometimes we really need a man’s point of view.

I agree that the energy we have is the one that attracts o repels not only men but all kinds of people. I also agree that men and women look for a person that makes them feel good and makes their life easier and more enjoyable.

I’ll definitely focus more on my vibe instead of trying to figure out why guys act one way or another. After all I threw all books to the garbage when I was raising my first kid because I was tired of other people telling me how to do it. I decided to go with my instinct and it went really, really well.

I don’t believe in labels of alpha or beta males, I think all men have qualities as well as flaws and different personalities. I actually love a combination of shyness and calm manliness, not cockiness.

I’ll try to stay away from the negativity and stop being negative myself.

Really, thanks a lot.

I just read the rest of the comments on this string, including Eric’s and had to chuckle. I loved his advice and agree with it, but I don’t understand the negativity part. My comment was tongue and cheek and I was actually supposed to be funny, but apparently was taken as negative energy….LOL. This was a response to Rose, who I can see from reading her comments, is a very upbeat savvy girl and I figured she would know what I mean. She asked about lazy guys and that was what my response addressed. I used terms that aren’t clearly defined, but to me a beta man is either lazy or flakey or a user and generally unimpressive to me. It doesn’t mean he’s shy – a shy guy can be very impressive. I equate beta with a guy who wants to ‘take’ rather than ‘give’ in a relationship and they will let a woman boss them around as long as she is doing things for him. Its a generalization yes, but its meant to mean a guy who’s not trying (for whatever reason). There are so many women on here who chase guys – guys that will end up hurting and using them (numerous threads demonstrating this) – those guys are beta to me – users or lazy. I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying: let a guy impress you, let him woo you – rather than chase him. More times than not, that is the right advice for most women. Yes, there are the women who are successful initiators – they probably have very good radar, but a lot of women don’t and get very hurt in the process.

For me, the few great loves of my life have all been what I define as ‘alpha’ men for a good reason – I admire them, they are doers, givers, smart, successful, kind, loving and they wooed me and knew that they wanted to be with me. There was no wishy washy behavior. I am a successful, smart woman who just can’t be with a guy who I don’t admire – firstly, I am strong willed and want a guy that I can’t push around, I want an equal partner with mutual respect and, secondly, I would just not be attracted to a guy who is a user, lazy and wasn’t sure about me. An ‘alpha’ is not an asshole with bravado – its a guy who has respect, knows what he wants and is willing to work for it. And I respect these guys, and there are lots of great guys in this world, these guys don’t need convincing or cajoling to ‘see’ how they feel about a woman.

I agree that chemistry and personality are key and everyone is different and be you and happy and you will attract the right person. I am very successful at love and believe these all to be true. But I also believe that women need to beware – unlike men – of wasting their time on the wrong guys. And it seems that this often happens when the woman is doing the chasing.