Home › Forums › Complicated Situation / Mixed Signals › Help me identify pattern of this guy… to avoid .. narcissist?
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Liz Lemon.
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Mary
Hi,
Sorry this is not really a “get your ex back” topic, this is more of myself trying to recognize a pattern after having dated someone a couple of weeks, that seemed to show 2 faces. It’s the second time I’m dating someone where I notice low level lies (let’s say, because these are lies when you are like: why would he even lie and persist he doesn’t? and then you still doubt yourself that you are crazy). I’ll focus on the last case, I’m trying to get to a psychologist so I could link that to my own story but in the mean time I’m curious if any of you here recognizes the pattern that this guy could have.
He is 28, he is engineer (so relatively smart, nerdy), he looks like the cute kind, he claims himself to be super sweet, open and honest and expecting the last two from a partner. Seeing him you would just think he is a nice guy. I matched with him on tinder. I decided to go and date him because I told him about my previous lie experience, and he reacted super well and open saying he’d never do that, that if we didn’t end up in a relationship we could always be friends. It was just super lovely, and that’s definitely what I needed. Someone to be open with.
The dating was good. It was just lovely, I found weird that at date 2 he said he loved me… but I thought he was just cute. After date 3 I do believe he lost interest for some reason, and went back swiping a lot on tinder, which I notice due to his changing distance. I slowly confronted him with that, he completely denied, keeping his sweet sentences up. I thought I should stop, but I left him the benefit of a doubt, except things continued that way. He always denied, that he wanted to be only with me etc etc with very sweet texts, despite he was not asking me out anymore on his own.
In the meantime we had sex.
I continued freaking out, and I after telling him again, that I saw him a lot on the apps, he denied, and turned it around saying he was not sure to want to continue this if I did not trust him.
I tried to say I wished to delete the apps, he ignored that, said he needed to think. In the meantime two friends had matched with him on tinder, and knowing me they decided to talk with him and have broad conversations in order to see how he was reacting with them.
In the meantime I myself tried to organise a meeting with him so we could talk face to face like adults and settle this disagreement. Again he first said yes very lovely, and when I asked for a day to meet he never opened my messages anymore.
In the meantime my friends pursued the talks with him on tinder. When he ever was mentioning me (rarely) he said he didn’t want a relationship with me, but that he had made it clear, that he told me, that he would have stayed friends but i didn’t want too, that it was too hard for me . (NOT TRUE!!!)
Another time he said we had three dates, and then he confused himself saying we kissed only, and he rejected me after speaking to me face to face, and i was sad (which is also not true, we had more dates, sex, and he never said anything to me face to face of that sort !)
He could also use some story that was very similar to my family story I had shared with him to say that a girl had been very open very quick to him, using it as a way to say girls feel very comfortable with him and he is so sweet.But then he can also denie having watched a movie on netflix which I know he told me for sure he has watched.
And when these girls say to him on tinder that sometimes he is unclear, and his stories seem BS he completely denies. He also denies talking to many girls, one noticed he said he had a hike with friends on a weekend, somewhere, which eventually didn’t match at all with the distance he was having at the same time same day on tinder…
Also with one proposing sex, he believed it and was like he could have gone for it, and mentioned sex with me was bad (btw) and on the other hand, he said to another he had a weird chat with a girl asking for sex, what he would have never thought of would happened, and of course he refused.
Seeing these chats with my own eyes I’m completely disturbed.
Is he so weak he doesn’t have a personality that he needs to make things up, to his advantage, when really it is not needed? And he also denies he has said I love you any time recently… and other things. On the other hand he says he hopes to find a girlfriend, and tends to believe anything himself. If he was a liar, how would he himself believe a lot?
I’m asking for advice, this is really disturbing for me…. I’m a sweet girl and I really don’t want to have this. There is literally no way to know it from the guy at first. I’m left without answers when this is the last dating experience i wanted to have again..
i would say it looks like a very weird coward/weak behavior with unconscious lying pattern.. strange it opposes exactly the honesty he prones..
Thanks for any help?
Elvira
Mary reading your post I could see from the first few paragraphs that you CHOSE not to see the red flags and maybe this is why you continue in the same pattern with men who you assume are liars. My first clue that things were going down the wrong path is when you told him about your past “lie” relationship, information about your negative past experiences should not be exposed so soon, since it shows your vulnerability right from the start. I compare it to a woman who would say I was cheated on before don’t do that to me and the man says I would never and the same thing happens. Now the fact he said I love you on the 2nd date is alarming, why would you even continue to see him knowing that was a lie! Then you question (interrogate) him about pulling away and being distant after 3 dates?? Seriously I think you need to stop dating and read a few books on how to go about dating (Why Men Marry Bitches) is a great start! Within a period of 3 dates you went into a full blown relationship setting up a meeting to discuss the disagreement? If you believe he is lying there is no trust and if that happened within such a short time frame then this relationship was doomed before it got off the ground. I believe you have severe trust issues and in order to be your best self in any relationship you need to address your problems first. There is so much wrong with this post I can’t point everything out, the bottom line is you got invested way to fast in a man you didn’t know. You had friends confront him on Tinder (what is this high school?) Of course he is going to lie you and him had not established anything at this point.
mama
There was no commitment, no relationship and no agreements made. It’s said often on this forum that you can’t sex a guy into a relationship. Three dates do not make a relationship, and an “I love you” on the second date means nothing other than a red flag because it’s a sign that a person doesn’t mean what they say. Have you ever been in love? How much dating experience do you have? And keep in mind you met him on TINDER. Ugh.
Elvira is right that there is so much wrong with the original post when it comes to relationship expectations, respectful ways to conduct oneself, etc, that it’s difficult to even know where to start.
This isn’t narcissism on his end, this is you throwing all your expectations on to one man who didn’t meet the bar you set and you took it very personally and took it out on him. Also, DO NOT get friends involved to trick potential dates … that’s immature and manipulative. Regardless of how another person acts, have some personal integrity to manage your own issues.
Ss
Well, this is all a bit much really. You went on a handful of dates and clearly didn’t trust him so you got your friends to secretly interrogate him on tinder and monitored his movements…wow! Can’t you see how messed up that is? You clearly over invested in this man to an unhealthy level.
Regarding his “lies” the guy is dating around and is not committed to you so why would he disclose details of your connection with him? He told you he loved you which was weird but he is hardly going to admit to recently telling another woman that he recently told someone he loved them as presumably he is trying to date them and no woman wants to hear that do they? They would run a mile.
Yes he is clearly not very honest but in circumstances that you have set up to trap him its hardly surprising he wouldn’t be honest with random women he has yet to meet and tell them he is already seeing someone. You had sex and he pulled back and said the sex was bad. Not nice to hear but maybe that’s just the truth for whatever reason you didn’t click sexually.
You don’t sound in the right place emotionally to be dating right now! Step back from it and seek some help for yourself around your trust issues. The way you have gone about this has caused you unnecessary pain. You should give zero fu*ks about men you are dating who are not your boyfriend. If you were not so over invested you wouldn’t have been checking his location or got your friends to match and chat with him. You would have pulled back yourself and let him go on his merry way. Dating is hard but you are making it harder for yourself x
Newbie
I think its good you are going to see a therapist and i strongly recommend a significant break from dating. You are not in contact with your gut at all. Your gut was screaming since date 2 that saying i love you was weird and right after that he started to pull away. And what do you do? You start to sleep with him, getting into disagreements and starting to chase him. Your whole strategy is a receipe for disaster for yourself. Which is bad as it will maybe hurt you a lot. I agree with elvira to learn about dating, how to pose yourself, how to read signs he is interested. The biggest part to learn is to stay true to yourself, have strong boundaries about what you accept and not, know you cant sex a guy into a relationship. Etc it will be fine but you need to do some work. I also recommend why men love b*tches to women like you and Peggy recommends the book to have him at hello (or something like that(. I never read it, but she promotes it as a great book for dating. Take care
Lane
You are way too clingy and controlling tbh.
Do you know what dating is? Its where people date other people until they BOTH decide to be a couple (in a relationship). Until that time a single person is allowed to be on a dating site and date others.
We have no idea if he’s anything you claim. He could be a love bomber or a single guy playing the field and trying to shake a clingy woman off him?
You need to take a hundred steps back and not invest in people you hardly know so easily. So what if he lied? He’s allowed to be on Tinder meeting other ladies if he wants to, as you were too and really had no right to call him out on it. If it bugs you that he was lying about something he has the right to do, then you stop dating him—easy peasy!
I think you should read “Life Code…New Rules for the Real World” by Dr. Phil McGraw as that may help you ‘spot’ the bad boys quicker without needing to go to such lengths to prove what?
Liz Lemon
There is a lot to unpack here. You’ve received a lot of thoughtful comments. I agree with everything that’s been said so far.
You can’t force or rush intimacy. This is what I see you trying to do. You tell a guy you’ve never even met about relationship trauma you’ve experienced (the issue with lies)– that’s way too much, too soon. You don’t pour your heart out to someone you don’t know. It creates a false sense of intimacy and closeness with someone who is essentially a stranger.
Then you sleep with the guy on the 2nd or 3rd date after he showed some very questionable behavior (saying he loved you on the 2nd date should have made you feel very uncomfortable! Like someone said, that’s a sign that he doesn’t tell the truth, and has his own issues– an emotionally healthy person knows it takes time to fall in love). Then after the 3rd date you confront him about his distancing behavior. You barely know the guy and you’re acting like a long term girlfriend!
And then having your friends talk with him about you over Tinder is just crazy. That’s something high school girls do. Surely you see that isn’t mature, healthy behavior?
This is not how you date. First of all, don’t spend a long time chatting and revealing personal information to a guy before you even meet him. Think of dating like a job interview. That doesn’t sound romantic, I know. But like a job interview, you should be showing the best side of yourself, not your weaknesses, while also observing the guy and considering whether you like what you see (similar to when you go to a job interview and check out the workplace to see if it would be a good fit).
You said “I’m a sweet girl and I really don’t want to have this. There is literally no way to know it from the guy at first.” You’re right, there is no way to know a guy without taking time to get to know him! You need to take time to get to know the person and make sure he is worth your time and energy.
You don’t spill your guts to someone before you know them. You talk and share details about yourself and your interests, but don’t jump in and rush intimacy. You go on multiple dates and take time to get to know each other. It’s not a good idea to sleep together right away. If you had dated this guy in a healthy way you would have seen by the 2nd date that he is not a good candidate for a relationship. Any man that says he loves you on the 2nd date is not emotionally healthy. You would not be in this situation. So you’ve got to educate yourself on how to date, otherwise this will keep happening to you.
Liz Lemon
Oh, and I forgot to address this but it goes without saying that in the early days of dating, both people are free to continue dating others. So you had no right to get angry with him for continuing to be active on Tinder. Until you discuss exclusivity with the other person and agree to be exclusive, you should not assume the other person is not still dating. And you yourself should be swiping and dating as well.
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