Home › Forums › Dating and Sex Advice › Investing in me + Exclusivity Talk = Ghosting
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maria.
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LAgirl
Hi Ann
It’s good you know what to NOT do with regard to ‘being nice and winning a man over.’Doing things to win him over actually repels most men. Women think if they bake the man something, or do errands or small things, she will convince him what a great GF she would be. This upsets the balance of the mating process.
Men feel good when they can please the woman. So HIM doing things for YOU, is what makes him happy and he wants you to simply be appreciative and receptive. Never give more to a man than he gives you, and in fact, give much less.
Men fall for women for different reasons than women do. One big mistake women make is believing that the man wants/likes what the woman does. For example, because SHE likes getting gifts, she assumes the man will be equally happy/excited if she buys him little gifts.
It’s actually quite easy if we just sit back and let the man lead. Be receptive and do very little. Men love the chase and to feel like they won you over.
Ann
Yep,
I find myself being the “mommy”. I have stopped doing it, at least I am trying. :) I provided some caretaking over the weekend, but that was for Nice Guy who had bladder cancer surgery, and he really did need a friend. I had another date with a new guy, and I tried to use all of my newly learned tools from here. It went well, but I was bored out of my mind. haaaaa.
As far as Victoria goes, what would you be saying to her if she had been seeing this guy for 6 months? Your answer would be different, right?
I guess I am asking, when should we know its never going anywhere?
And…by the way…… I just love this site. You rock LAgirl.
LAgirl
One thing I was hoping Victoria would say is how he responded when she brought this topic up on the first date. She said that she informed him from the beginning that being in a relatiosnhip was what she was looking for. His response to this statement would have given a huge clue regarding what he wanted and where this was headed or not. Regardless… two weeks into dating is way too soon to expect a man to give up dating other women.
Usually when you toss that statement out there the man will either say he is open to the same, OR will say something like he isn’t looking for a relationship right now. If he says the latter, it’s best to just move on, because what he is really telling you is that he doesn’t see it with you.
Women tend to feel ‘guilty’ dating more than one person at a time. So they ASSUME men should also feel this way. This is where there can be a huge disconnect. Men can enjoy many women’s company and not feel guilty or even a need to get serious with any of them.
Men also like to chase and win. So… if you give yourself to him within the first two weeks its too easy for him AND he doesn’t have that adrenaline rush of winning you from other men. This is why you end up losing because if he wasn’t head over heels to begin with, when you halt the chase, he really loses interest.
6 months in, if you still feel in limbo,it’s likely because you were not on the same page and you committed to him BEFORE he gave you the title. When you do this, the man assumes you are ok with not having the title. If he isn’t wanting to pursue serious with you, he will just keep things status quo until you say otherwise. Like I said, men don’t date to get into a relationship but they do enjoy a womans company.
A big mistake women make is assuming because he ACTS like a BF that is the direction he is heading or that is what he wants to be. Not true. Most men don’t want to be a jerk.. so of course he will treat you well and want to make you feel good.
In general, men will claim you within the first 3 months. It takes men about 3 times longer than a woman, to decide if ‘shes the one.’ This is because he takes his time getting to know your patterns, how you act, how he might fit with you, etc. Usually men are far more practical than women about this. Women tend to fall for the possibiity of a future, while men live in the present.
Ann
I do feel guilty dating more than one man!! Especially when the men start asking questions about what I am doing when I am not with them. Juggling is complicated.
You describe the whole dynamic so well. How men like the chase, to feel like they are winning, etc…
Now……once a man has lost interest, is it wrecked forever? Is it time to cut bait? I ask this, because here was the situation:
I had been dating someone for about 6 months (not Gambler Guy, but generally a nice guy) and I attached too quickly, the chase was done, and eventually he lost interest, and we just floated apart. It was done. At the time, I had wondered if instead of just ending it, could I have done something to re-new his interest, or had I burned that bridge?
Christine
If a man is right for you then nothing you do or say will scare him away, unless you are crazy, being an exception.
Too many women on here are giving men all the power to chose the woman and think by not communicating to a man what she wants is being controlling, bossy etc. And too many women on here are actually suggesting that to sit back and wait for a man to choose her is an effective strategy for entering into a relationship. This is all games, games that don’t work.
You can’t trick a man into wanting to be with you and if he is the right man he won’t scare away just because you assert your relationship goals. If you ask to get married on week 3 that is crazy, if you ask what is your value and he scares then maybe it’s just not the right fit.
Victoria
Hi, LAgirl!
To: “Usually the reason for doing it so early is to test his reaction?”
I completely agree. He responded with, “Ok, I can do that! :) I typically prefer having open relationships. But, I’ve been in exclusive relationships before. I can do that! :)” With open, comfortable, enthusiastic, body language, and tone of voice.
To: “Otherwise how could you not be on the same page 3 weeks after that discussion?”
1) He didn’t really know what he wanted from the beginning (i.e. date one): He thought he could be exclusive, but when it came down to it he came to the realization that he would rather continue “playing the field”, per se.
2) He wasn’t that into me/To him, I wasn’t worth him committing: Having me around was nice. He truly enjoyed spending time with me. But I don’t exhibit the things he’s looking for in his idea of a committed relationship. He’d like to have me around as an option—thereby, agreeing to be exclusive initially—but, then, when it really came down it decided that I wasn’t worth the commitment.
Victoria
Hi, Christine!
Hi Christine!
To: “If a man is right for you then nothing you do or say will scare him away, unless you are crazy, being an exception.
Too many women on here are giving men all the power to chose the woman and think by not communicating to a man what she wants is being controlling, bossy etc. And too many women on here are actually suggesting that to sit back and wait for a man to choose her is an effective strategy for entering into a relationship. This is all games, games that don’t work.
You can’t trick a man into wanting to be with you and if he is the right man he won’t scare away just because you assert your relationship goals. If you ask to get married on week 3 that is crazy, if you ask what is your value and he scares then maybe it’s just not the right fit.”
You summarize up a lot of the main points I’ve made in this forum in these few paragraphs. Thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts. I agree that, given the flow of events that occurred between me and this man, “waiting for the man to choose her” gives the man all the power.
I am all for both parties feeling empowered, and there is definitely a fine line between being a pushover and being controlling. Like you and I said, if I asked the guy to marry me after week three, check me into the psych ward! But that wasn’t the case.
I wasn’t willing to compromise my sense of self-respect (i.e. wait for him to chose me while he dated other people despite my discomfort with those terms of the relationship).
Again, if I asked him to be exclusive on date #2, that would be unreasonable. Given how the situation played out, however, I remain steadfast that my decisions were more than reasonable.
Now, not every woman wouldn’t feel cheated on at that stage in the relationship. Some people can have casual sex, some people can’t. At that point in the relationship, some people feel OK with dating other people, others aren’t as comfortable. Some people love chocolate, others prefer vanilla. Some believe in God, others don’t—both camps being equally reasonable, in my mind…
…and I wouldn’t force a person to believe and/or feel one way or another.
That is the point I think a lot of these lovely ladies are missing here (I truly appreciate all of your feedback, My Dears). He knew from the beginning what I was looking for. He was given the option to stay or move forward when I shared that I wouldn’t feel comfortable seeing other people. He committed, but had cold feet the week that followed. I chalked it up as him not truly wanting exclusivity, and I exerted my choice to leave the relationship because it wasn’t what I was looking for…
…just as he had the choice to stay or leave throughout the entire process, as well.
LAgirl
Ladies,
I believe you are misunderstanding the concepts behind the man choosing you…I am not suggesting that the man have the power. I am discussing the natural order of mating.
The man HAS to pick you first, because he knows what he wants in a woman. From there, the woman can SELECT and have the POWER to pick the man (out of the pool of men who WANT her).
This is the way it works. When YOU are the one selecting the man… you actually have zero power, because you have no idea how he really see’s you. Therefore, you end up in this type of situation where he ends up deciding you are not the one.
A man will tell you very quickly how he see’s you. He will put you into one of three categories : freind, FWB or potential partner.
Once in a category, you rarely get moved.
So the power in a woman has to do with deciding, of the men who want her for a relationship, which man is the best fit for her. This eliminates any need to convince a man and it helps you understand up front pretty quickly if there is a potential for a relationship with that man.
LAgirl
By the way, I disagree that if a man is really into you, that you can’t drive him away.
In fact, you can.
Men hate drama, arguing, etc.So even if he views you initially as ‘the one’ he will easily walk away if a women turns into an unattractive crazy lady.
My fiance told me that he has done this before and has had male friends do the same. No man really wants a relationship or to lose his freedom. He does it because that woman adds something to his life. But that doesn’t give a woman the opening to act any way she wants, because she thinks she hooked him.
Same applies for women who stop taking care of themselves, dressing nice, makeup etc… men do not want the excuse, “if he loves me he won’t care if I dress in baggy sweats” – not true ladies. This makes for a wandering eye.
Lane
Great explanation LAGirl!
Absolutely agree that trying to “convince” a man to like you doesn’t work, not differently that it doesn’t work if a man is trying to convince you to like him a certain way if you don’t!
A man MUST come to the commitment NATURALLY and for his own reasons, usually which is based on a fear that he will loose you to another man (other suitors). In a nutshell, if a man ISN’T ATTRACTED to a woman, all of her attempts to share a connection, convince him to like her, and to feel love for her will NOT get her the love she wants or deserves.
Here are the most common strategies women employ to try to convince a man that DO NOT WORK:
1. Trying to win his love. This is when a woman tries to “be nice” by buying him a gift or doing something nice to show him how much she thinks about him.
2. Trying to “convince” him by telling a man how you really feel about him and how much you want to be with him in hopes that he will “see the light” and proclaim his feelings for you, too.
3. Putting up with a flaky behavior. If you only want to be intimate with a man inside an exclusive relationship (which is a very good idea), then don’t allow yourself to be in a situation where you are sleeping with a man who has not agreed to be exclusive.
The reality is that men can be physically intimate with a woman and not be thinking “relationship” at all. Sleeping with a man is not going to trigger the kind of attraction he needs to feel in order to want a relationship with you. Thereby, trying to win his love, convince and/or sex a man into commitment are not winning strategies.
There are the “attitudes” a woman projects which make her irresistible to a man:
1. She doesn’t allow a man to determine what she wants/will have in her love life—This kind of woman won’t “settle” for a man who isn’t giving her what she wants and needs, emotionally.
2. She will move on and leave a man before she would let him ruin her life or make her feel bad about herself—This woman won’t put up with bad behavior from a man because values, integrity and trust are important to her, and she lets him know that.
3. She doesn’t keep a man from doing the things he enjoys because the man is an adult who has the right to make his own choices—She respects his “freedom” and his need to pursue his goals and dreams.
What woman fail to realize is that although he may check all your boxes on values, personality, traits, goals, etc., you probably don’t check of his which is why they don’t pursue you. Men actually aren’t looking for “compatibility” (equality) they actually seek their OPPOSITE—women who possess traits that they don’t! It ultimately comes down to having the right winning formula where you meet his needs (attraction) and he meets yours!
Ms.NYC
LAgirl and Lane,
Thank you so much for your advice on this thread.I agree with everything both of you had to say. I am seeing this guy who has told me that he is seeing other people casuslly. I am single and he is single. When he first told me that, at first I was taken aback, now I realize that what he’s doing is healthy and what I need to do is not put all of my eggs in his basket. I need to go out there meet guys, date, and whem one of them chooses me, I can see if the feeling is mutual on my end and decide if I choose him back.
As for this one guy, I’ve pulled back my emotions because I was falling fast. I’m not going to explicitly tell him I’m seeing other guys, but I’m going to be busy in my life and not be so available. He will pick up on my energy/vibe and either step up for fear of losing me or he won’t. And either way I’m still out there living my life and meeting men. That’s what we women have to do! And it’s perfectly healthy and natural.
So thank you LAgirl & Lane for reinforcing how the dating should be done by women.
Ms.NYC
As a quick follow up to my last post, if you really think about it, that is how mating is done in the wild. Think of a male peacock for example, who spreads his feathers to show the female how bright and colorful and enticing he is to mate with. Then the female peacock will determine if she wants to mate with him. She is the one who CHOOSES.
I don’t know why in the human mating game things have gotten so twisted. So ladies (myself included), remember you do the choosing out off the males who want you!
Lane
Great attitude Ms. NYC! Trust me, having this mindset makes dating a heck of a lot easier. Now I will admit that this younger generation doesn’t really know what they’re doing which is why its causing so many problems in the dating world today. Back in the day although we still had the players (those just looking to get in a girl’s pants), majority of men were actually seeking a mate to settle down with (marry) and start a family as our species is designed to do, so they weren’t as lazy or under the “why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free” mentality as they are now.
What girls fail to realize is that most men think about sex anytime a physically attractive girl passes by them. They are loaded with TESTOSTERONE which is what fuels a man’s sex drive and although they can’t have sex 20+ times a day, everyday, if they crossed the paths of that many women, they will TAKE IT if a woman freely gives it to them! This is why having sex with a man early is very bad idea, and until the lady knows for absolutely sure he’s wants more than just sex, she needs to make him EARN it by “displaying his feathers” so to speak :-)
Those who EARN something are more apt to treasure and care for it than if it was just handed to them. If you had to work three months to purchase a special “handbag” would you care and treasure it more than if someone just gave you one as a gift? Of course you would, which is why you should apply this concept with men and dating IF you want something real, meaningful and potentially long-term (the ring).
maria
OMG, enough with the cow analogy already !!! It’s demeaning to women.
As for birds – they are not mammals and we don’t have much in common with them.
As for other mammals – we don’t have much in common with them either. Look at cats and dogs for example. When the female is in heat she gets suitors. Those fight over (not for) her. The one that wins that fight will “take” her, pretty much whether she likes him or it or not.
Not very human behavior if you ask me…
Humans are different from all other animals in so many ways and we should not compare ourselves to them. At least not when it comes to mating.
elle
Thank you all for your posts. I agree with many of your posts and especially with not letting yourself go. Eating, exercising, staying fit, dressing/grooming…do this for yourself, not just to impress or for a guy. Even and especially after you get the guy whether you are exclusively dating, fiancé, and/or married. My two cents….cheers!
Lane
Maria,
First, the cow analogy is not demeaning to women. These women demean themselves when they live with a man for YEARS and he still has no intention of marrying her—they post here regularly so stop pretending it doesn’t exist. FACT in 1960, 72% of all adults ages 18 and older were married, today its barely 51% and cohabitation has grown. So this analogy is part and parcel of the “attitude” men have towards marriage today v. the past.
Second, I said “don’t ACT like a bird by chasing CRUMBS”, which was a METAPHOR I used to not allow a man string you along—geesh chill out.
Third, humans ARE MAMMALS (hominin) and humans still adhere to ancient courtship rituals that are used throughout the animal kingdom. Most females and males don’t even realize their doing it, where YES there’s actually a BIRD body position called the “broken wing” where the woman’s body is twisted toward him in a crouch position, with her hands near her face that sends a signal to the man “protect me” and men love that. A man who does the “chest thrust” by casually stretching their arms back is making himself as big and formidable as possible which sends the signal to the female he can take care of her. Women tend to look small and crouch, men tend to look big and formidable.
Fourth, females when OVULATING produce a surge of HORMONES where they not only fantasize about having flings with other men that aren’t their mates, but attract men too. When they’re fertile, the gals are still checking out the gene pool, and the guys are still trying to hold onto their turf (conquerors) while also looking like the best bull in the ring to be selected by the best female (another metaphor).
Fifth, dating is a cutthroat game with winners and losers. Some ladies and men win and find their mate while others lose because they don’t know how to play the game as well as others. Its a game of attracting, poaching, rejecting and selecting the right partner that will hopefully make your life the least miserable.
Lastly, I have no clue why you continue to create arguments or flame contributors on here?
Harley
LANE… I always love you ! Very interesting points. Gosh, you all soooo educate me. And continue to do so. I wish I’d known how to do point 5 better 6 mths ago… but,,, then again.. he just wasn’t that into me. ha ha ha.
Harley
I hope none of you have 4th July hangovers !
Lane
Hi Harley!
Yes, I did have a bit of a hangover when imbibing at a 4th of July beach celebration :-)
Ah yes, the 5 point flirting move: You catch someone’s eye, cock your head to the side, raise your eyebrows, look down, then away.
Its interesting how humans unconsciously do things like this when seeking a mate without knowing they’re even doing it. Unfortunately these mating (dating) skills are no longer taught by the older generations which was to ensure the parents would be able to provide, protect and nurture the young to be contributing members of society, thereby ensuring our survival.
Do you have the Discovery Channel? Have you watched “Naked and Afraid”? I love that show, not because their naked but it truly shows hows our race has lost most of its primal skills to the point if there was a cataclysmic event the human race would die out pretty fast if they didn’t have access to a lighter. Even those WITH these skills can BARELY make it 21 days so it baffles my mind how the ancient humans survived at—kinda like dating today, lol
maria
First, I find the “why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free” demeaning to women. I’m sure I’m not the only one. Plus getting married doesn’t equal buying a woman, or guarantee that the man will not see other women.
Second, I wasn’t referring to what you said but to what Ms.NYC said.
Third, yes, humans are mammals, but no we don’t have much in common with other mammals when it comes to mating. (The biggest difference being that all other species are programmed to reproduce as much as possible during their life time) (and that alone makes their mating behavior very different from ours).
Fourth, yes, even married girls/guys look at guys/girls who are not their partner. That does not make them animal like IMO.
Fifth, dating may be a game in the beginning, but when you find someone who’s compatible with you, you can pretty much lay all games aside and just let the relationship “happen”.
I feel sorry for you if your goal is to “attract and select the partner that will hopefully make your life the least miserable”. Every aspect of that is SO WRONG IMO.
Lane
Sorry, but I’m just not as PC as you are. Its a perfect analogy to define the mindset of men today where it comes to protecting their ASSETS yet expecting the woman to act the role of a wife but get nothing in return. Again, the only one’s who demean themselves in this situation are the ladies who accept it then whine about it later on. If they want the ring then they should get it, like I did, before they move in and “play house” IF that’s their goal—if not then this analogy doesn’t apply to them.
Ms. NYC was describing mating behaviors that are no different than humans who reside on the same planet for the sole purpose of survival. There was nothing wrong with her metaphor, whereas she was just using an example of how the FEMALE SELECTS the MALE WHO PICKS (pursuits) THE FEMALE which is a human mating behavior. If it wasn’t then the women would be the pursuers and we all know how that doesn’t work on the human male species.
Harley
Hi.. I hardly ever watch tv.. but it sounds an interesting programme ! I’m a lot old fashioned. I could adapt and survive in outer Mongolia. I got snowed in 4 10 days and all my family/friends/workmates wondered how I’d managed… I had already stockpiled canned food/ toiletries etc/ collected rainwater in barrels for cooking and cleaning, had chopped loads of wood…. I was fine. Just dandy… have to figure out how to do the fire thing WITHOUT matches/lighter !
I used to pursue men…. never again.. I have learned where I am going wrong ! I plan on going back to old fashioned dating !
maria
Lane
I wouldn’t say that these women are demeaning themselves. Perhaps they’re misjudging their situation and perhaps they’re fooling themselves too… regardless, they don’t deserve to be compaired to cows.
To be honest I don’t understand why it is so important to get married. Sure I’d like to get married one day, but I don’t believe that it changes anything really – the relationship will not get happier or safer or last longer because you get married.
As for birds… I’m sure there are some similarities between them and us, but IMO there are far more differences…
For example, male birds are more attractive and colorful than female birds. With humans it is the opposite. We “use” our hair, nails, make up, clothes, bodies etc to attract men…
And I don’t agree women choose their man. IMO women and men choose EACH OTHER – it is a mutual decision based on attraction, connection and compatibility.
More – birds are programmed to court and reproduce and can’t choose not to. Humans can choose not to. And humans can have sex for pleasure only. Birds can’t/don’t do that etc etc…
Harley
You should do what you feel is right for you. I prefer to be straight forward AND to let the man lead. A third person may swear by something else entirely. There’s not “one solution fits all” when it comes to dating…
Harley
Yep.. know what you mean Maria.. each situation IS different. It’s just I guess I know now.. not to text, call all the time… let the guy do this, and ASK you out on dates, NOT promise to. .. how to weed the out.. players from keepers. And I also do not see the need for a wedding ring.. I just want the good old committment.
Victoria
I believe Maria encapsulated several very great points in the following quotations:
1) “And I don’t agree women choose their man. IMO women and men choose EACH OTHER – it is a mutual decision based on attraction, connection and compatibility.”
To this, I say, “Amen!”
2) “You should do what you feel is right for you. I prefer to be straight forward AND to let the man lead. A third person may swear by something else entirely. There’s not “one solution fits all” when it comes to dating…”
The world is a dynamic system where many outcomes are produced by many different possible variables. Like most things in life, there is not ONE formula that gets a particular result–especially when dealing with human-to-human interactions. For example, I am pursuing a minor in psychology at Harvard University, and something my professor said illustrates this idea well. He said, “Stick two wild animals in an stalled elevator, and you can predict what will very likely happen. But if l you stick two PEOPLE in an elevator–who the hell knows what’s gonna go down?! (rhetorical question)” The rhetorical question illustrates how wild animals operate predictably because they’re driven by carnal/primal instincts and cannot “see”/”perceive”/think past these carnal/primal instincts. To further drive the point home, here’s another example: it is virtually impossible to find a cheetah in the wild that will say, “I will become a vegetarian because I do not want to kill other animals for my benefit.” Why won’t we ever see this? Because…
*****…wild animals do not have the ability to think past those primal instincts. Humans are not like this.*****
Humans have the capability to execute a more sophisticated order of thought and, because of this, we are dynamic/unpredictable creatures.
To bring this back to the context of dating, because we are dynamic/unpredictable creatures, dating is one of many things that illustrates how a “one formula fits all” approach to successful dating doesn’t makes sense. If this were true, every woman in the world would have the same courtship story: A led to B which led to C…and now we’re committed to each other. Needless to say, this isn’t the case.
*****I think every one in this post is saying the same underlying concept which is: “Do what feels right for you, stay true to who you are, and be steadfast in those principles.”*****
In all aspects of life: whether it be dating, career choice, political affiliation, social activities, life goals…etc.; everyone leads their lives differently. But we all do things with respect for ourselves and others; and this is what we’re all communicating to each other in this post: Just be true to who you are and be steadfast in your values. HOW you go about doing this will differ from person to person based on personality/upbringing/culture…etc.–but the end result is the same:
Be you.
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