Talked to my guy about the "deep regret of my last text"

Simply put, if you find yourself analyzing every word he said or did not say, if you find yourself on this website, you are NOT the one for him/her… Period…

Harsh words on the surface, no offense, but good luck… Sooner or later, you will see things in their true colors…

I appreciate the ability to post on this site and vent/get opinions of those who know what I am going through. I do not have a thin skin, so blunt advice or words I really do not want to hear do not offend me! We are all at various stages of our respective relationships/loss, etc., so it is interesting to me to see how each of us are coping or moving on.

I have never experienced this type of situation with any man I have dated before. It may sound conceited, and I do not mean it to, but every man I have been interested in before has always had a similar interest in me. As I mentioned before, I either put someone in the friend zone or the I want to date you zone. The ones I have dated, I have had a relationship with. Of course, I have had break-ups that were not my doing, but there were reasons we broke up after spending a fair amount of time with each other. Things sometimes just break down over time. I’ve never had a man I was interested in not be into me the same way (not want to be in a relationship.) It is perplexing to me…

One thing I struggle with is comparing myself to his ex. I really know nothing about her, but I do wonder what it was about her that got his attention after only six months, they moved in together for three years… I wonder why she still has his attention. I really think it is because of the attachment he has with her child, but I do not know. I don’t like, though, that he finds me easy to discard, it seems. But, then I think, well, he doesn’t want to rush into another relationship like he did last time. (He did say that in so many words. That is, he said he is not rushing into anything.)

My head spins with this kind of stuff all the time. I drive myself crazy…

@Terry, I do not know which one of us is in the worst place. Right now, my guy and I are not talking. I do not know if we will again. You are still spending time with this lady and it is driving you nuts! I don’t like how you mention if you were to reach out to her now that she’s busy with her friends that she would not respond. The one thing my guy does is respond back immediately no matter what time of day. (This is, of course, except when he is doing a disappearing act… That sounds really weird when I type that out!) I have no doubt if I were to reach out to him right now, he would respond. But, that is not to say he would suggest we get together.

I wonder if you just stopped talking to her if she would step up and start acting better toward you?

@diane, I looked back at one of your prior posts and was reminded you and your guy dated for about six months. How did you classify your relationship during that time? How would you today? That is, besides amicable, would you say you’re just friends? If so, is it possible for you to just be friends? And did he ask for that?

You mention having moved on. When did that occur and have you set in your mind that you will not ever communicate with him or try again to date whether he or you reaches out?

Kat – thanks for asking the question…. During those 6 months, we dated maybe 15 times having sex each time… The dates were all proper real dates with 6 hours minimum….Slept over at his place a few times, ran into a couple of his adult kids which were a big deal for him as his divorce is not final yet…

But I never looked at it as a relationship, then and now, because I was ALWAYS the one initiating the contact… I would ask, and he would go plan things out, paid for everything….But if I did not ask, nothing was going to happen..

In terms of now and future, in his words, we are “definitely friends”… But I don’t really believe in this type of “friendship” nor do I see any need to ever reach out to him… So my opinion is this is the end of it.. Next chapter….

Funny thing is that once I decided to be strong, and look at things at face value (that he would not ask me out regularly), there is no mix signal, there is nothing to analysis… Everything is plain and clear… It is matter of whether you want to see it or whether you want to analyze everything to death and confuse yourself…

My feeling is by the time you come to this website, you are close to the end of the tunnel already… Good luck…

I agree with LAgirl. Only because I too have been there. It is self-abuse, which is an extremely difficult pattern to get out of until you fully acknowledge that that’s what’s going on.

I would highly suggest you stop theorizing about these people and start focusing on yourself – maybe theorize WHY you are drawn to a damaging and difficult situation in the first place. Is it because you believe that that’s what you deserve? Or that one day it will turn into something better, so that you just HAVE to suffer through the present? Do you feel like this person is your only real, true, exciting option?

I.e., start figuring out what’s going on in your OWN head, not theirs.

Kat, you seem obsessed with the ex. I would honestly drop it. You seem to think she had some secret, nefarious power over this guy. Or that she’s using the kid to malicious ends. But honestly, she’s probably just a nice, normal person. She’s probably not that different from you. Your best bet is to stop trying to figure out what you can do to make this guy want a relationship or figuring out once and for all why he doesn’t want a relationship with beautiful, amazing you, and just start BEING beautiful amazing you with all the people who are in a position to appreciate it. It’s amazing how ONE guy can seem SO rare and worth holding out for until we drop the obsession. You have nothing to prove. Just get out there and start connecting with people and your sense that he is soooo important to figure out will disappear. (I say this having literally spent YEARS obsessing over situations like this. It’s so not worth it. Even when the people do change, it’s not til long after you drop the obsession …..and by then, you don’t really care.)

Terry. Regardless of what’s going on in HER head about sex, it certainly seems to be an issue for you. There is NO reason to be with someone who is NOT remotely on the same page with your sexual needs and desires …..unless you are married to them, in which case you need to get on the same page or end the relationship.

I discovered my wanton sexuality late in life and then embraced it. Maybe she just likes sex. Maybe she just discovered that. was how it was for me. I realize my nympho promiscuous ways are not for everyone, not should they be, but cock would be my answer too. Or “just being horny” as you put it .

There are enough problems in this situation that it doesn’t really matter why SHE acts the way she does sexually. The only real question is why you are so obsessed with classifying her as a nympho promiscuous whore and meanwhile entrapping yourself in a situation that makes you desperately unhappy and in which your sexual needs are unmet. How do you feel about your own sexual appetite? Reading this my off the cuff impression is that your anger at HER for not recognizing or honoring your sexual needs because in reality you are angry at yourself. Perpetuating this situation may be your way of judging and condemning yourself for your own sexual needs – so you attach yourself to a woman who refuses to fulfill them, as a way of punishing yourself. Then you condemn her for those very sexual appetites which you refuse to fully accept or honor (and by honor I mean actively creating situations that honor them) in yourself.

Methinks some serious re-theorizing of your own relationship to sexuality is the ticket here, not more obsession about her.

Just a thought. As always I tend to respond when I see a version of myself in one of these situations, so, as always, take it as you will.

Hope that helps
Xoxo

Hi Anna,

Thanks very much for your insightful response and honest observations about my situation. But, with all due respect, your assessment misses the mark in several important respects.

First, you contend that, “Regardless of what’s going on in HER head about sex, it certainly seems to be an issue for you.” Sex, in general, is not an “issue” for me, meaning I don’t have any particular hang ups about sex. As a matter of fact, sex between her and I was regular and hot for the first month-and-a-half of the relationship–when she was allowing herself to go with her feelings about me. It only started becoming an issue when she started withdrawing, which was around the same time she acknowledged that I was the first guy since her ex that she actually had any feelings for.

There’s a back story with her which I suspect differs from yours in some very substantial ways. In addition to being abused physically as well as emotionally/verbally during her abusive 22-year marriage to her ex, she told me shortly after we met that sex between her and her ex was virtually non-existent for the last 10 years of their marriage, due to her ex never wanting to have it with her. Furthermore, she says he continually told her that she was fat, stupid, ugly, worthless, etc….. All the while, however, he was cheating on her with other women and made no secret of it. In fact, toward the end of their marriage, she said he actively encouraged her to sleep with other guys for two reasons: 1. To justify in his mind his cheating on her, and 2. To confirm his paranoid suspicions that she had always been unfaithful to him during their marriage. Messed up, I know, but that’s what she told me. In the end, it was he who turfed her out of their marital home, even though she was the one being abused.

I’m no psychologist by any stretch, but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that when someone has been as psychologically and emotionally damaged as that for so long, when they are finally out of the dysfunctional relationship, they can either go one of two ways: 1. Shut the opposite sex and any thoughts of physical intimacy out of their consciousness altogether; or 2. Aggressively go about, in their own mixed-up way of proving to themselves and, indirectly to their ex-partner, that they are not as unappealing and useless as they were constantly told they were. And, if a woman’s self-esteem and feelings of attractiveness and desirability had been crushed to the extent hers was, it’s not surprising they would act out as she did, destructive in the end as it may have been, given that none of the 50 guys who were just using her as a fuck toy in the year after her marriage ended gave two sh*ts about her as a person.

Another factor to consider is this: I’ve been seeing a personal counselor for over a year to deal with issues of my own unrelated to her, as I’ve only been seeing her for about 4 months. That said, I have discussed some of my concerns about my situation with Dee when I see my counselor (who, incidentally, is a woman) and her take on it (having counselled abused/battered women in the past) is that behaving in a hyper-sexual manner following the end of an abusive relationship is actually quite common, as is completely turning off on sex altogether. So to say that Dee simply “likes sex”, as you say you do, seems like a gross over-simplification, in her case.

Also, it’s worth noting that Dee is and has been for quite some time, quite overweight. So much so, that her family physician has approved her as a candidate for gastric bypass surgery to improve her overall health. Part of the preparation for this kind of surgery–in addition to lifestyle modifications pertaining to food, entails psychological evaluation. The team that will perform her surgery want to be as confident as possible that she is mentally/emotionally prepared for all the potential ramifications that may ensue after the surgery. As such, she has been asked to be honest about any addictive behaviours she engages in and to try to severely curtail them and, preferably, abstain from them. Two weeks ago she informed me that, for her, that means quitting her three main addictions, aside from food, which she said were: a). Chat/dating websites; b). Sex; and c). Caffeine.

Given what I’ve already told you, do you now see a pattern/connection there between her so-called addictions and the excessive promiscuity she exhibited in the first year after her marriage ended? Hers wasn’t a normal “Oh, I just like sex” kind of thing. Hell, most people like sex. For a woman to sleep with 50 different guys in one year, including 3 in one day, and be so cavalier in telling me this, almost boasting about it, is abnormal and extreme. Very few, if any, women I’ve ever known want to be perceived as a cheap slut, even if that is how they act because of whatever trauma is compelling them to try and assuage their feelings of worthlessness and inadequacy. Her voluntary and freely offered disclosure of something that would be a grave embarrassment for most women is so obviously a way of validating to herself and, who knows, perhaps to anyone who cares to listen, that she is, in fact, worthy of men’s attention and desire.

Last point. I’ve come to realize one very key fact about Dee. Virtually everything she has said and done during our time together in one way or another can be traced back to the dysfunctional relationship with her ex. Even though she has been separated from him for nearly 5 years, the frequency with which she refers to him in some way suggests that she harbours many unresolved feelings about that relationship. But, longing for him is definitely not one of them, as she has deliberately moved to the town she and I now live in, hundreds of miles away from the town in which they lived while married, has an unlisted phone number, and has forbidden all of her family and friends to reveal anything about her present whereabouts should they be in contact with her ex. iN FACT, WHEN i ONCE QUESTIONED HER ABOUT WHY SHE STILL MENTIONS HER EX AS MUCH AS SHE DOES, her response was that because she’s still kicking herself for staying with him for as long as she did. For all I know, her extremely promiscuous conduct could have been her way of trying to push her time with him further and further into the recesses of her memory by crowding her brain with all these guys she’s been with since? I don’t know, that’s just a guess, of course, as I’ve never really known anyone who was in an abusive relationship for that long, nor have I ever known anyone who behaved like she did. (continued in next post)

So Terry
It seems you want to defend her bad behavior and explain it away at every turn. I have been in an abusive relationship myself. Physical, emotional, sexual. It didn’t turn me into a man hater or someone who abused back the next man I got into a relationship with.

You seem to have her issues down and on track. What about your own? Does your therapist find it healthy you are co dependent on a woman who treats you like this? I notice you avoid your own issues and focus on Dee. This problem is not about her. It’s about your need to accept abuse from her.

It does not matter about her past. She is not the first person in this world to have been abused. People go through far worse than that and come out just fine.

The reason I believe you started posting on here was for support and advice, yet it seems that you are bent on staying and trying to make this dysfunctional relationship work. That is your choice. If you want her to control you, and she is, that is your choice. I just believe you are in denial about the fact that this is more your issue than hers. You teach people how to treat you by accepting the behavior they offer you. You have taught her that she can disrespect you and you remain faithful…. I don’t know if your therapist told you this, yet when you do that you lose the respect of the person. Dee does not respect you.

When you don’t have respect for yourself and allow another to control you and treat you as less than a man, I guarantee she lacks respect for you. This means that any man who comes along that can stand up to her in a kind and firm way will eventually win her over. Contrary to what you think, women out of an abusive relationship do not want a man who is soft and easy to push around.

I know for me, I wanted a man who I could respect and would love me, but not allow me to walk all over him. The men I could walk all over, were just toys to me. I didn’t respect them and simply used them to get my anger out after the initial break with my abusive ex. However, once I found a man who was kind, loving but firm in how he would be treated, I realized there are real men out there I could trust, feel safe with. You see women who are abused still want a man who can protect her and allow her to be a woman.

Hi Terry,

I’m really sorry if anything I said offended you. I think I misread your question about whether her sexual behavior (in itself) was a problem. All I meant to say is that it’s only a problem if it’s a problem for you.

I will always support empowered women with a voracious sexual appetite who are frank about their desires. I’m sorry if I missed the mark by responding to your judgments about her behavior. “Cheap slut” just seems like an outdated and silly label to me, but that’s just me. You are totally free to judge and label people however you wish. The only thing that really matters is what you are looking for in a partner and clearly this kind of behavior was not it! :-)

I didn’t mean to suggest that she has no issues (from everything you’ve written, she clearly has LOADS.). All I meant was that behavior that you might consider abnormal or extreme might be perfectly normal for another person in another context.

I.e., the useful question might not be “why is she acting like such a slut?” but “why am I choosing to be with someone whose sexual practices I cannot respect?” If you find yourself using words like “whore” or “cheap slut” (outside the bedroom!) with the person you love, it means part of them is unacceptable to you. And usually what we cannot accept in others is what we cannot accept in ourselves.

If her behavior is unacceptable to you, the right thing to do is to end the relationship, which you have done.

I only meant that whenever we are sticking around with someone whose behavior we judge as totally unacceptable, it might be worth looking into our own issues for doing so rather than trying to figure out theirs.

Truly all I meant to do was offer my own experience which is that no matter how messed up the person who refuses/repeatedly fails to be in a loving, mutually fulfilling relationship with us is, the only really useful question is why WE are choosing to be in that situation. But you are no longer choosing to be with her, so that may be a moot point.

I think the great thing about all of this is that you have figured out exactly what you do and don’t want and what you will no longer stand for in your dating/relationship life.

I truly wish you the best and I’m sorry if anything I said came off as unsupportive or unkind. You deserve joyful, wonderful, fulfilling relationships and I truly hope you know that everyone in this community absolutely supports you in finding that, even when our advice misses the mark. Only you can know your true situation and what is ultimately best for you.

Wishing you strength, love, and happiness, and the beginnings of a wonderful new chapter after this difficult time in your life. You sound strong, clear, and empowered…..I sense that great things are ahead for you and that the deep analysis you have done here is the beginning of a time of joyful and fulfilling connections with everyone you meet in the future. Can’t wait to hear more about where life takes you and what this new era brings!

Xoxo
Anna

Hi Terry !

Putting up with disrespectful behavior, if ever so little, is to enable it. And there’s not much (if any) difference between enabling and excusing/justifying someone’s behavior.

Plus, even if you pull back and “teach” her to treat you with respect, the fact remains that she’s not that into you. Do you really want to be with someone who’s not that into you?… If the answer is yes, then sadly you don’t have that much respect for yourself…

Sorry, but IMO you will never feel like a “winner” with this girl, cause you will never have both her respect and respect for yourself (and that is a must in a happy, healthy, fulfilled relationship)…

Hi Terry,

Thanks so much for your very kind and thoughtful response!

I definitely agree that there were deep issues surrounding her self-worth and and hence her ability to connect with you with a deeply fulfilling and meaningful way.

I don’t think you were gullible at all to believe in her feelings….it’s always wonderful to feel a connection with someone and to be open to them in a deep way. I think the issue is not whether her feelings were real but whether she was able to act on them in a kind, honest, and meaningful way (and it sounds like, despite you giving her the benefit of the doubt, she truly wasn’t). I think the most difficult thing for me is always realizing that while someone’s feelings may be real and genuine, their ability to act on them and create a fulfilling relationship may be totally inadequate, and it’s this that makes a relationship with them impossible. I think I feel happiest when I’m open to trusting people and believing the best in them, but also clear and firm in my own boundaries, and it sounds like you are too….I would see your openness to her as a wonderful thing and just a learning experience about what works for you (i.e. don’t become jaded and cynical about love or about women! the world needs more wonderful men like you!!)

Now, just for full disclosure, I’ve enjoyed fantastic sex with at least as many partners as she has. Sometimes three in a day….sometimes three at a time…..I love orgies :-) I think they are a beautiful expression of the human spirt and an unbelievably transcendent physical experience. While I acknowledge the risks involved and do my best to be safe, sex is such a joyful and profoundly meaningful thing to me that the risks, for me, are simply worth it. (Whereas the risks of other activities, such as driving a car or not wearing sunscreen, are simply NOT worth it to me :-) )

I am always looking to learn more about myself, to deal with whatever issues I may have, to learn from others, and to grow into the most centered and authentic version of myself in order to connect with everyone I meet in a real and meaningful way. So on a totally separate note from your own story, I would totally be happy to hear any insights you may have about the relationship between open sexuality, self-respect, and self-regard. If, as your counselor suggests, this kind of behavior is inherently disrespectful to oneself, I would love to hear more about why that is and how you think about the relationship between your own healthy sexual appetite and self-respect. You sound like an incredibly thoughtful and intelligent person and I am always eager to learn :-)

xoxo
Anna

Kat- i just read your post again… Our situations are quite similar , unfortunately …

If I may give an advise, my advise would be to get busy, and keep your options open… If you go chase him, you would only chase him away…

However, to be truly to move on with your life and keep your options open, you have to get to a point of not wanting/hoping for anything to happen, which is exactly where I am now…..

Stoping analyzing, stop obsessing, and life is going to be so beautiful without him…..

You’re welcome, Terry !

Tell me, what are your hopes in this? Do you believe it can turn into a relationship with mutual love and respect, or are you happy being FWB “but with a little more respect from her side”?

Anna, I have a question.

Could it be that your high appetite for sex actually is a sex addiction? And/or that you use sex to numb your feelings/escape from reality, just like drug users use drugs to numb their feelings/escape?

I’m not in any way saying that I think that is the case, I’m just wondering if you have considered the above a possibility?

To be completely honest Maria, in an ideal world–which, of course, this isn’t– I would prefer my relationship with Dee to turn into a relationship with mutual love and respect. Unfortunately, it’s now clear to me that she is incapable and/or unwilling of going in that direction. Moreover, I don’t think that’s the case just with me; I believe she was so damaged by 22 years of destruction of her self-worth that she now “copes” with it, such as it is, exactly in the manner you elucidated in the question about sex addiction that you posed to Anna.

Some people try to numb themselves through drugs or alcohol, so that they don’t have to confront feelings that terrify them, while I believe others, such as Dee, use the euphoria and stimulation that comes with sex for the same reason. She admitted that she has an addiction to three things: sex, chat/dating sites, and caffeine.

With regard to your second question: Can I be “happy being FWB “but with a little more respect from her side”? I honestly don’t know. As we speak (or type, in this case), I’m asking myself that question and trying to imagine whether I can. Part of me doesn’t not want to eliminate her from my life entirely, but at the same time, I find it extremely painful when she muses about having had sex with other guys, or doing so in the future. I’m afraid that–in my case, at least–once true feelings of affection are out of the bottle, it’s nearly impossible to shove them back in.

In short, the above decision poses a real dilemma for me, as I’ve never experienced a situation quite like the one I’m in with Dee now.

One last note. As I said in one of my previous posts, I did not intent to call or text her all weekend and I stayed firm to my convictions. She, however, did call me when she returned from her weekend trip to her hometown. And, I chose not to answer the phone. About an hour later, I texted her to ask if it was she who called me (she has an unlisted number, so it shows as “Unknown” on my call display) and said that I was on a boat with some friends celebrating one of their birthdays. This wasn’t true, of course, but I put it out there for two reasons. First, to circumvent any possibility that she would ask me to come see her last night. And, second, to let her know that I wasn’t just sitting around pining away for her all weekend. In other words, that I do have a life and not all of it revolves around her.