Home › Forums › Complicated Situation / Mixed Signals › What do I do now??
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Taylor
Ok so I posted on here a few weeks ago about I my situation with my ex fiancé leaving. We’ve talked a lot about things and what we both want. He told me he wants us back together and our family back…but part of what he told me when we talked was that I made him feel like he wasn’t enough and I was too negative etc. I have been talking to someone about all this (professional help) and they say he’s doing this to take the blame off him and put it on me. So I don’t know if he truly feels this way but if he’s being honest and open I don’t want to disregard his feelings. So he wants us together but said I will need to show him I really do want him for him to show me and him to truly put in the effort.
I feel like I’m about to get a lot of hate for this but here’s where I’m stuck….i love him like I’ve said. I would love for us to fix this and be happy together. Like I told him when we talked I need effort to. Right now both of us think the other is done and neither one want to be. The person I was talking to told me to go no contact and leave him alone and make him come to me. Which normally I agree with But he told me he feels like I don’t want him so to me the no contact just makes it really seem like I don’t. She just recommended this so I haven’t talked to him in a few days. He hasn’t reached out but based off our conversations I feel it’s because he thinks I blew off his feelings and don’t care.
So Should I try the no contact longer and risk it and see? Or should I put the effort in and show him he does matter to me and I do want this?RavenCouples counseling…
Eric CharlesKeymasterI can’t help but sense that you have doubts about the approach you’re being advised to take based on what you wrote, and that’s why you’re asking us our opinions here.
It sounds like you’re doing no contact because you were told to, yet you believe it’s going to make the situation worse based on your own percections, conversations and understanding of him.
It also sounds like you were told the guy’s motivation is to “blame” you, yet you don’t agree with this assessment.
I don’t know the exact advice you’re getting or the rationale behind it. Can you explain it to us?
This is your love, your relationship, your life. The consequences of your actions will be yours to carry. So I think it makes sense you should at least understand and agree with the approach you’re taking since ultimately you will be the one left with its results.
Maybe the advice you’re getting is perfect and very effective. I don’t know.
If you’re having doubts, though, it seems like something in you still needs to be addressed and hasn’t been.
AngieBabyTaylor.
1) LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH to sustain a relationship, particularly a marriage!!!! There has to be compatibility, shared interests and goals and a whole lot more.
So just “I love him” isn’t in and of itself a good enough reason to stay with him.
2) “So he wants us together but said I will need to show him I really do want him for him to show me and him to truly put in the effort.”
Oh girrrrlllll. You are being gaslighted. Pure and simple. He doesn’t want to do the work to get past his ex so he’s going to blame it all on you so when this doesn’t work out, he can blame you for not trying hard enough.
Please don’t buy this BS. He’s going to have you running and doing all the work while he does nothing. And I guarantee he’ll dump you anyway at some point.
This is now a power struggle. At this stage, it’s counseling together or you need to walk. I know that isn’t what you’re going to hear. But if you stick around for this BS you’re going to get more hurt and it will NOT get you back together.
If he won’t go, then you go and get counseling and IRL support for you. I don’t expect you to break it off permanently with him because some strangers on the internet told you to. But you’re here for advice and I hope you will consider what we’re all saying here. You and your child deserve better than this.
MaddieRegardless of the no contact, when you spoke did he take any accountability for his side of things? He just broke your trust and ended your engagement instead of talking to you about his issues, THEN he told you it was your fault for “making” him feel insecure. You can’t make another adult feel any way, his feelings are his and to otherwise blame you is a co-dependent approach at best (and as Angiebaby said, manipulative at worst). You already know his baggage is from before he met you. You may not be perfect as no one is, but I guarantee that his cold feet here are due to his issues not yours, so do not accept blame disproportionate to the situation. That just lets him off the hook from actually resolving the problem, which is why love won’t be enough to eventually get to a happy marriage if he’s not actively participating and going to couple counseling and/or his own therapy (or putting in similar effort towards getting whatever help he may need).
Power struggles aren’t about love, they are about issues. You don’t want to enter a marriage with unresolved power struggles because they further erode trust, and trust is just as important as love.
As Eric asked, why were you given the advice about no contact? Generally it is given as advice to practice good boundaries when situations have become untenable or toxic and focus on your own side of things with the additional space. Perhaps in certain situations, it allows you to observe if the other party steps up. But it isn’t to wait around and coerce behavior from someone else when your connection isn’t clicking properly.
Eric CharlesKeymasterAngieBaby & Maddie – Generally speaking, in my approach I’m very careful not to ascribe ill-intent or blame to one person or the other involved.
I do my best to ask questions and give insights into the relationship dynamics, what’s workable, what isn’t…
How do you guys know he’s intentionally gaslighting or manipulating? How are you certain that he’s not having legitimate struggles in his life and struggling to reconcile that with his relationship?
You both said things I agree with too and you’re probably right that in-person couples counseling might be the best option.
Taylor, if you do decide to get IRL couples counseling and it helps, we’d love to hear what helped if you care to share any details here.
MaddieI understand your point, Eric, and maybe my intent didn’t fully come across. I didn’t say it was intentional, I said manipulative at worst. I spoke about him having his own issues, and not letting him take his issues out on her. She’s taking him at his word that she’s to blame and needs to try harder, but that’s a losing strategy if he’s not also putting in the effort. I agree that once you get to blaming (power struggles) it creates dynamics that can easily tank the relationship and isn’t useful, and she shouldn’t be trying to solve his problems for him. If he’s not on board with a team approach, then she shouldn’t blame herself for it. I hope he’ll agree to counseling and step up.
AngieBabyEric – of course none of knows what he’s intentionally doing or not doing. Where did I or anyone on this site ever say we were certain of what someone’s real intent was?? All we can possibly do on this site is offer opinions and viewpoints based on the information given, which we all realize is just one side of the story.
Someone can very easily be gaslighting another person without realizing they’re doing it, but the end result is the same.
Obviously this man has issues and stuff going on or he wouldn’t have broken off the engagement.
EVERYONE is dealing with hidden stuff.
As I stated, I don’t expect someone to make a life altering decision based on what strangers on the internet say. I expect that since they’re coming here asking for advice, they read the varying opinions and take what’s of value and leave the rest.
If you think we should all be taking a different approach about advice giving, please state what rules you’d like us to follow. I’m not being snarky, I’m genuinely interested.
And I am very interested – I’ve never seen you or Sabrina post in the time I’ve been here. Now you’re posting a lot. What changed that brings you here so often now? I think it’s great to hear your views and opinions. Just curious as to the sudden increase in involvement.
TaylorOk so let me start by saying 1. Yes I absolutely know love isn’t enough to make it all better. I simply shared that meaning I do love him so it’s not just as easy as ok whatever I’m done. 2. Yes I definitely doubt what the lady I talked to told me and am looking for someone else!! She made me feel like we were in a highs hook locker room the way she responded to things which I’ll show you in a min. And when I asked questions or was trying to better understand her point I got told not to ask anything and she was the professional so I needed to trust her and just take her advice not doubt or ask questions.
To answer a question y’all asked no he did not just blame me. He took full responsibility to his actions and owned his mistakes. He was very open and sincere and took full responsibility on his own for things. I obviously can’t put every single detail on here so y’all understand better but he asked what I needed from him and I asked the same. Part of that was he said he wanted to feel wanted and I asked what he meant and he told me I had made him feel a certain way which I what I told y’all earlier. He was very quiet and almost embarrassed to open up and tell me he felt this way. But again he didn’t just come out yell and blame me and say you fix it and leave. I’m not saying y’all aren’t right but I do want to make it clear he did what he should in that aspect. So Eric I definitely do think she’s wrong here about he was just blaming me. She also threw me off by following that with “ if he wants to blame you and make you feel guilty you turn around and play the same game with him and tell him everything he’s done to you so he knows what false blame feels like”…. 😳😳 ummmm wait what?? Why are we playing the blame game here?! So I don’t think he was trying to get away from blame since he owned it. He was telling me how he felt.
Also with the no contact… I’m all for it for the right reasons. Like y’all listed above or like Eric talks about in his books.. if it’s to look back and reflect or make yourself better or give y’all time then you bet! Her reasoning that she told me was “he could use an attitude adjustment and know he can loose you at any moment. So don’t contact him. Follow the no contact rule and ignore him. Make him come back with his tail between his legs. Make him suffer” again ummm ok?!? This just completely rubbed me wrong!!! I told her we’ve been talking this whole time. I told her he opened up and took responsibility and told me what he needs from me and me from him and she said to take control of the game, throw him for a loop and go no contact. And then told me what I wrote above.
Like I said he opened up calmly and told me his feelings part of which were he didn’t feel important or loved or wanted. So to me and my opinion only that’s not the answer. It wasn’t about me becoming a better me or anything along those lines. To her it was to play the game. I’m no professional so maybe no contact is the way to go. But her reasoning and approach threw me completely off and confused me even more. That’s why I was asking here what to really do. He’s asking to be shown he matters. She’s saying don’t talk. I don’t know what to do but I don’t want to make it worseTaylorI also want to say in response to y’all’s newer reply’s… regardless of what he says I don’t blame myself for this!! I’m not taking the blame and letting him off. Yes I could have done some things differently but NO this isn’t all on me and I know for a fact it’s not!! And he knows this too. So I promise I’m not letting him blame me and make me feel bad lol my main question was in no contact tilt the way to go or should I try showing him he matters more etc and seeing how that works instead? In a round about way
TaylorI had little hands help me with my typing so please try to read through our typos lol
MaddieLol Taylor, yes, could still read it with the little hands!
Okay, my questions about if he took accountability and follow ups to what you said about the therapist positioning the blame were to gauge if he was calling all the shots and your professional was trying to give you tough love to shake up your perspective. But with your responses and updates, I can understand why you want different perspectives and are questioning the professional advice.
You’re better off trying out a different professional than relying on internet stranger advice, but this internet stranger will tell you that if you’re being spoken to that harshly by a professional who is telling you to make him suffer?!, it’s perfectly reasonable to be questioning whether or not that’s the right professional for you. Sometimes it requires trial and error to find someone who is the right fit for you.
If he’s really trying in earnest and you’re having a back and forth and he’s not blaming you and you’re not blaming yourself, that sounds like there’s some room to work through the issues together. In which case, no contact hampers rebuilding the trust and connection. Find out if he’s willing to try couples counseling with you. And if he says one thing but acts a different way and his feelings don’t seem to line up with what he’s saying and you try again on your side but end up confused by things not lining up, that’s a big sign he’s not actually ready to take the steps he needs to. Do still keep in mind that this is especially important because he broke things off with you before attempting to work through them, and he still needs to put in the effort to earn your trust back if that is his goal.
Thanks for clarifying what’s going on!
Eric CharlesKeymasterMaddie ” I spoke about him having his own issues, and not letting him take his issues out on her. She’s taking him at his word that she’s to blame and needs to try harder, but that’s a losing strategy if he’s not also putting in the effort.”
Totally agree.
“I agree that once you get to blaming (power struggles) it creates dynamics that can easily tank the relationship and isn’t useful, and she shouldn’t be trying to solve his problems for him. If he’s not on board with a team approach, then she shouldn’t blame herself for it. I hope he’ll agree to counseling and step up.”
Yes, but a big part of this is perspective. One of the great poisons of today’s relationship advice is the perspective of power dynamics, negative labeling of a partner with personality disorders, framing their behavior as an attack or imbued with intention to do harm, etc.
I do think there’s some value in understanding “toxic dynamics”, but I also think there’s a real danger for people to adopt it as a worldview. That is, viewing all relationships through a lens of power dynamics, a victimizer-victim perspective.
Imagine if we viewed friendship through the same kind of lens. Nobody would have any friends!
I’m just taking this opportunity to point this out because I think it’s important in general. This isn’t directed towards you specifically or meant to single you out. In a wider sense, it’s something I want to address in my work. Being able to actively discuss it in the forum helps me connect with everyone better.
So I hope you understand I appreciate you and not trying to pick on you! :)
AngieBaby – My answers are interspersed but not in order:
“If you think we should all be taking a different approach about advice giving, please state what rules you’d like us to follow. I’m not being snarky, I’m genuinely interested.”
All good. I’m reading what you wrote as sincere and I hope you know I’m not trying to pick on you.
It doesn’t always translate in text but my tone is curious and open, nothing negative towards you. (I wanted to make sure I said this explicitly.)
I’m not looking to enforce rules or prescribe an approach. I just want to discuss a wider cultural issue when it comes to relationship advice.
I want to explain, but this is for context for where I’m coming from and not directed at you.
Generally speaking, there’s a larger culture that I think is probably well-intentioned but does not produce good results.
The last new wave of “relationship advice” on the internet has been an amateur pop-psychologist approach, full of pseudo-diagnoses and adversarial framing.
When you boil it down, the punchlines tend to be some variation of:
– he’s intentionally manipulating
– he has an unfixable personality disorder
– he is damaging you in permanent ways
– his attacks go unperceived and you are defenseless against themNow mind you, I’ve read lots of material about narcissists. I’m also familiar with the topics of gaslighting, lovebombing, negging, etc.
The tricky part for me is that I think there’s value in understanding this stuff.
On the other hand, I think that this material can become a sort of obsession within its audience, where everything is viewed through a lens of power dynamics, dysfunction, conflict, etc.
There are plenty of relationship problems where that stuff does not fit.
Ironically, when these concepts are brought into the discussion, they can unintentionally “gaslight” the person seeking advice into a state of paranoia when they’re already in a fragile, worried state. Not good.
I’m very careful not to ascribe ill-intent or manipulation too quickly for this reason.
Imagine a situation where a guy is genuinely struggling and genuinely loves the woman. But things head downhill in the relationship, he has doubts and he breaks up with her.
Sad story.
But then imagine if the woman seeks advice and people on the internet convince her that the guy willfully intended to manipulate her, blame her and hurt her. Bad situation and I’ve seen it happen all too many times. Not good.
So that’s where I’m coming from.
At the same time, the challenge for me is where I draw the line.
There are situations where this is exactly what’s happening and exactly what the OP needs to hear! So maybe the solution I’m looking for is a greater degree of nuance and questioning up front?
I don’t know. I’m still trying to work that out. Again, that’s my motivation to bring any of this up, I want to refine how I approach this stuff.
It’s a popular approach to relationship advice, but I think in some instances it can do a lot of harm. I’m trying to find how to capture all the good of it and pull out anywhere it can be damaging.
“And I am very interested – I’ve never seen you or Sabrina post in the time I’ve been here. Now you’re posting a lot. What changed that brings you here so often now? I think it’s great to hear your views and opinions. Just curious as to the sudden increase in involvement.”
It’s part of my creative process in developing new material. Part of the value is having the discussion multiple times and finding the places where I’m repeating the same key points. That helps me refine my message.
Another aspect is the constructive discussion around my approach.
Ideally my aim is to discuss nuances like this because it helps me refine my message.
As a coach I want to be able to connect with as many people as possible. I have my concerns about specific approaches in today’s culture, but I also don’t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.
Succinctly, I want to refine my message to resonate with as many people as possible and the ANM forum is the best place for me to do that.
In the past I used to do it on Facebook or the comment section, but I haven’t been putting up articles lately so those venues are less active these days. Once I’m back in the swing of posting new content regularly, maybe I’ll transition back to those venues. We’ll see, for now I’m mainly focused on what I’m doing here now in the forums. Keeping it simple.
Eric CharlesKeymasterTaylor: ” “ if he wants to blame you and make you feel guilty you turn around and play the same game with him and tell him everything he’s done to you so he knows what false blame feels like”…. 😳😳 ummmm wait what??”
“he could use an attitude adjustment and know he can loose you at any moment. So don’t contact him. Follow the no contact rule and ignore him. Make him come back with his tail between his legs. Make him suffer””
“I told her he opened up and took responsibility and told me what he needs from me and me from him and she said to take control of the game, throw him for a loop and go no contact.”
Yeah see…
Hmm…
I don’t want to disparage anyone in the profession of helping people improve their love life.
And I also don’t know exactly what was said, so none of what I am about to say is directed against the person involved giving you this advice.
Understanding WHY you are doing something is tremendously more important than the what and how.
It’s why I boil relationship and love down to their essence and talk about the foundations of relationship explicitly here.
The adversarial approach to relationships lacks wisdom. It interprets the world through a lens of attacks & defenses, victims & victimizers, tactics & targets…
It is a lens that has no understanding of relationship or connection in the first place. It is a view more like one would view a game or a war.
KathrynSo thoughtfully written Eric and so true. We can give advice and share our point of view and suggestions. But with so many people posting blogs, being the next be “thought leader” on a topic, etc. It does seem like there is a lot of pseudo arm-chair psychology happening. Not specifically here, but in many places. I just hope we all remain open to the many different possibilites of what’s happening – you never know exactly is going on with another person either. If we get too tied to, or steadfast our own interpretations, we then aren’t as open to other points of view and empathy. Just my two cents.
AngieBabyThanks Eric.
MThank you Eric, I found value in this too. I especially loved the reminder of perspective and worldview. Makes me think about how I view my relationships and what I’m bringing to the table without even realising…
Also, it’s amazing that you’re posting here and we get to interact with you. I’m a huge fan and I’m certainly learning a ton. My life’s infinitely better thanks to you and all your research!
Taylor, I’m sending you love. Truly, you sound so wise to me in many ways and I wonder if you even realise the insight and wisdom your own heart holds.
I don’t know what the future for you both looks like, but I’m sending you both love anyway. May you find the magic in your hearts and whether it’s ultimately apart or together, May you learn to consistently sing from that place within that that makes miracles come sparkling true. You will find a way through this one way or another, I know you will.
And where you’re heading with such love and sincerity and genuine courage and bravery on your part, will make you stronger than you can imagine and lead you to a more wonderful future than you ever could have hoped for.
Believe in yourself, sometimes, the answers we’re looking for, are within us already….🌟💖✨
MaryI am one with the attitude/understanding that a love relationship is to help us grow and not to make us happy. In addition, I know full well that boundaries are important in getting the love you want. In this situation, I personally would ask for space (respectfully, of 3 weeks or more, as clarity can be found.
MaryA question for Taylor:
Did you have good boundaries in this relationship? Was he respectful of them? That may be be very telling of who he is and what you currently have in one another.
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